Madonna Interview: An American Life

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Newest incarnation as wife and mother, still a living icon

Madonna sits down with NBC's Matt Lauer for a candid interview on music, marriage and being Madonna.

NERVOUS, APPROACHABLE, even demure. Who’s that girl? Okay, you’ve heard it before and if you’re cynical you’ll have your doubts, but this does seem to be a new Madonna.

Forget the days of raw blonde ambition. She’s now a brunette mother of two, who at age 44 is more reflective than reactive.

Madonna: “You know what? I didn’t really give a sh** what’s going on in the rest of the world. I just didn’t. I just wanted to focus on me, me, me, my career, my life, just me — blinders.”

Matt Lauer: “Here’s something you said: ‘I was a buffoon until the age of 40.’”

Madonna: “Yes, Yes. I was.”

Lauer: “That sounds like a lot of wasted time.”

Madonna: “No. Who said it wxas wasted? I just did a lot of —”

Lauer: “A buffoon? Who wants, who strives to be a buffoon?”

Madonna: “I don’t think anyone strives to be anything negative. I just think that it’s our nature to only focus on a few things in life and forget about a lot of other stuff.”

Yes, she’s had many incarnations before, changing her image like most people change their clothes. But this latest one is perhaps the closest we’ve gotten behind the curtain and into her state of mind. Madonna-at-mid-life is what she sings about in her new album, “American Life.” She’s co-written every song and they’re some of the most personal of her two-decade musical career. There are intimate lyrics about the love she says she’s found with husband Guy Ritchie, as well as the title song, in which she not only raps, but takes an honest and harsh look at her life in the material world — and the Madonna image-making machine.

Lauer: “Let me read you some lyrics from the song, ‘American Life.’”

Madonna: “Okay.”

Lauer: “‘I tried to be a boy. I tried to be a girl. I tried to be a mess. I tried to be the best. I guess I did it wrong. That’s why I wrote this song. This type of modern life, is it for me? This type of modern life, is it for free?’ What do you mean by that?”

Madonna: “That trying on different guises, different personalities, being a rebel, being androgynous, doing all these kind of things trying to be number one, on the top. But I guess I did it wrong, meaning I’m 100 percent sure that getting people’s approval is not a goal to have in life.”

So after 20 years of fame and the fortune that comes with being a superstar, can it be that Madonna’s had enough of being Madonna?

Madonna: “I have all these things. I’ve experienced all these experiences. And I can tell you from my vantage point, which is what most people perceive as the top, that none of these those things are really real.”

Lauer: “Well, let me play devil’s advocate for a second because it sounds a little bit like, Madonna, you’re someone who’s benefited from celebrity as much as anyone has and enjoyed it.”

Madonna: “Benefited and I’ve also seen the other side of it as well.”

Lauer: “Okay, but you enjoyed the ride. And now it seems at 40-something years old, you’re looking back and saying, ‘celebrity’s bull.’”

Madonna: “To a certain extent I am. Because I see how obsessed with celebrity everybody is. And I’m saying, you know, if you’re only halfway up to the top, you can hardly say, ‘I know it’s not going bring me happiness.’ I know it’s baloney.”

Talk about a 180. After all, this is the same woman whose love of fame left even the famous stunned.

Lauer: “Let me give you something else you’ve said. ‘It’s the allure of the beautiful life. Look like this and you’re going to be happy. Drive this car and you’re going to be popular. Wear these clothes and people are going to want to sleep with you,’ I’ll paraphrase. ‘It’s a very powerful illusion. And people are caught up in it, including myself. Or at least I was.’”

Madonna: “Absolutely. Sure I mean, but you are, too. We all are. It’s our nature. And it’s okay. The thing is if nobody tells you that it’s an illusion or nobody brings your attention to it, then how are you going to know?”

But is this older, wiser Madonna just another way to get our attention? After all, she’s at a critical point in her career, coming off of declining record sales and a movie career on life-support.

She’s always been a master at is creating buzz. Everything she does becomes an event. A fashion photo spread for “W” magazine turns into an art exhibit. Try downloading her new CD off the Internet and you don’t get the song, but a classic Madonna moment.

Make no mistake, Madonna is always in control of the image she wants you to see.

Lauer: “I always had the impression that you were very happy with who you were at whatever given time I was talking to you.”

Madonna: “To a certain extent I was. But how do you know that there weren’t things going on in my personal life, in my relationships with my family. How do you know there wasn’t chaos going on somewhere in my life?”

Madonna and Controversy

Where there’s Madonna there’s controversy. And “American Life” has been no exception.

Yes she’s pushed buttons before, taking on the church and taking off her clothes. But this time, she’s done something really shocking — she’s gone out of her way not to offend people.

In an uncharacteristic move, Madonna pulled the anti-war video that was supposed to launch her new “American Life” album and edited a new sanitized version. The original showed her dressed in combat gear at a fashion show.

Madonna: “I filmed it in January. And by the time the video was finished, we were at war. And many of the things that I sort of was trying to depict or warn people of were already happening in the world. But with everything going on right now, the soldiers being killed and wounded and the destruction that’s talking place, I just don’t think it’s appropriate.”

Lauer: “Here’s where I have to stop you. If you wanted to make a pro-peace, anti-war video, what better time to show it and get people to look at it than a time of war?”

Madonna: “I agree with you in theory. But unfortunately, I feel like America’s in a really volatile place right now. And there’s a lot of really confused people. And I’m not interested in being a target for a lynch-mob mentality.”

Lauer: “So this is personal safety. This isn’t an unwillingness to push some buttons?”

Madonna: “No, it’s a combination. I’m very willing to push some buttons. I don’t have a problem with that. But I think that what people would misconstrue is that I was slagging off at President Bush. And I’m not. I think they would misconstrue that I was making light of what’s happening to the soldiers in Iraq, which I am not. I just don’t think that people right now — things are so serious. And people are so volatile that they’re not going to see irony.”

Lauer: “But you never worried about that before. This isn’t the first time that I’ve sat and talked to you.”

Madonna: “We haven’t, since you talked to me, have we, been in this serious of a situation?”

Lauer: “But you’ve taken on religion before. You’ve never worried about people misinterpreting your message, because it’s your message. And I’m curious why you’re worried about it now.”

Madonna: “Because ultimately, I don’t want to just be provocative for the sake of being provocative.”

But is this famously savvy marketer really thinking in a vacuum? She’s no doubt aware of what happened to the Dixie Chicks, who had to do major damage control after lead singer Natalie Maines said she was embarrassed to be from the same state as President Bush.

Lauer: “They made a statement about the President of the United States, leader of the free world, at about the same time your video was coming out.”

Madonna: “Right.”

Lauer: “A cynical person might say there’s got to be some money involved in this.”

Madonna: “Oh no. I lost a lot of money making that video.”

Lauer: “Okay, but wait. They took the Dixie Chicks’ CDs and they smashed them in the streets. And radio stations stopped playing them. You got a brand new important album coming out. What if people don’t buy it?”

Madonna: “That’s not the reason. I give you my honest to God promise that that is not the reason. Because I have bigger plans and I have more important things to do.”

Next: On Top, But Alone